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hello and welcome to the skeptics own

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show number 44 for the 21st of august

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2009 Richard Saunders here with you from

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Sydney Australia on today's show our

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reporter Carly Sturgis talks to slough

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from sessions with Slough the podcast

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and the music producer friend of George

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Robert following that we have another

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think tank this time it's dr. Richie

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Diane burst open and Joanne benim oh yes

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an all-female think tank once again now

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those of you in the state's coming to

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dragoncon in a couple of weeks please

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come and find us we'll be at the skeptic

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track and i'll be at the silk road track

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doing origami they'll be Kyle Easter

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just dr. Richie and myself plus our

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friends dr. Steve Roberts the Australian

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skeptics UFO expert and dr. Martin

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bridge stop from Queensland we'll all be

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there please come and find this out and

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say hello and i hope you'll enjoy some

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of the panels and talks will be giving

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but for now let's get on to this week's

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I'm Carly Sturgis and today I'm talking

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to slavko harlowton known to his many

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fans as Slough he works as a music

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producer and an award-winning recording

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artist his podcast sessions with slough

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takes listeners behind the scenes at be

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sharp a recording studio in New York

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City is experienced with sessions gear

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reviews and equipment shootouts make him

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an expert choice to discuss how to feel

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practically and pragmatically with

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superstitions and pseudoscience in the

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audio industry okay I'm really with your

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work because I listened to a great

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podcast called sessions with slam and I

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am NOT one who is particularly familiar

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with audio technology but I I enjoy

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listening to someone who's enthusiastic

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about their profession and you're

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certainly that recently you discussed

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the superstition multitrack on your

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podcast and I immediately thought to

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myself are they commonly held

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superstitions in the audio industry and

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how do you deal with them when you come

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across them well um i would say that in

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them in the music industry or at least

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the part of the industry that I'm

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involved with mostly which is recording

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I would say generally there aren't too

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many superstitions that are a parent or

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obvious I mean like say like in

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something like baseball for example you

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might have the people who have a

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superstition about a a winning streak or

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something like that you know like the

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the pitcher won't change his underwear

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for three months or something disgusting

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like oh dear God yeah in the in the

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audio industry or in the recording

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industry um I think if if anything

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people might have their own little thing

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that they like to do to sort of get them

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themselves focused you know it is it is

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an environment where you have to deliver

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something creatively and sort of

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whatever relaxes you I i think is it can

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be a good thing you know people might

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bring some

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thing like oh I don't know their

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favorite little you know quote unquote

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lucky charm or something like that

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something that gives them a sense of

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comfort something from their from their

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home or something of a loved ones you

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know keychain or something I don't know

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what whatever it is I haven't had an

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instance where it's gotten in the way of

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anything sometimes you know I i happen

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to have quite a lot of religious clients

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a lot of like Baptists for some reason

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and the one thing I say that sort of

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makes me a little bit uncomfortable from

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time to time it's not a big deal but

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they really like to pray a lot oh and

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and it's like right before I it started

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out with some people at the beginning of

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a session they would sort of you know as

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a group they would pray and and that's

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fine i've just sit there that you know

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at the console i wouldn't say anything

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and they would do the thing but then it

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got to the point where people were sort

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of you know praying before each take in

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a recording session and that just gets

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that just really to me upsets the flow

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of things um but time is money as well

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it is it is and and i mean it's it's up

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to them if that's what makes you know if

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that's what gets them motivated well

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that's fine Who am I to say that they

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shouldn't be doing it the one time well

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it was actually it happened a couple of

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times now I but but the first time it

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happened it really took me by surprise

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one of my clients who it was a brilliant

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brilliant pianist like you know a

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grammy-winning kind of artist um he he's

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a he's a christian and you know he had a

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band in and they sort of invited me to

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pray with them in the live room standing

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in a circle holding hands and and I just

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I'm the kind of person so I'm so non

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confrontational I said sure you know i

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just i went in there you know held the

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hell the hands and stuff and they just

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went into this real kind of like a

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baptist kind of prey

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the Lord praise and thank you Lord for

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for putting us in touch with Slough and

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this net you know I'm just standing

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there smiling and I'm not not

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participating in the sense of I'm not

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praying but hey if it if I you see the

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thing is if I were to say to them no no

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no go ahead you know I i pass i don't

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know if that would make them feel

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particularly uncomfortable and i feel

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less discomfort i believe just standing

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there and smiling than they would if I

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refused so you know it's a case of

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what's the harm in this case you're sort

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of helping them out I guess to me to me

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that that's yeah yeah that's how it

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feels to me so but as far as just

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general kind of superstition I i I've

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been lucky to not encounter it uh you

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know what whatever makes the person feel

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comfortable i think is ok if somebody

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came in and and and you know and wanted

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to do something that I objected to well

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then I don't know I have to deal with

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that you know as I encountered it but so

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far knock on wood lucky oh that's a good

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one to use definitely being a

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superstition in itself right now in

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these cases we can say okay it's routine

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it gets people into a comfort zone what

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happens when it's something that is

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dangerous when people start promoting

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pseudoscience that will actually rip

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them off have you come across many audio

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base to pseudoscience which people have

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been touting saying this will improve

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things beyond compare and it just really

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won't for their pocket at least if not

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maybe their career I don't know the

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thing that I that I've encountered so

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far in terms of stuff like that I think

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that people are easily influenced by

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just you know brand names and the way

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things look as opposed to the way they

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sound and the way they work you know

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there was a case where I had a bass

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player who came in and would would not

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use anything but monster cable

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yeah and and he swore that you know the

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transient was response was much better

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and stuff like that and you know the

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thing is I know that he paid like an

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enormous amount of money for cables and

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stuff and and to me it was just

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something that I didn't believe in any

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way made any difference you know so I

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it's it's something that I've

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encountered to a degree but I think more

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so people are just mesmerised by brand

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names and the uh you know the the

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promise of something rather than the

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performance they say well this

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microphone will make you sound to you

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know like so and so it's a vintage

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styled microphone with you know with

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vacuum tube electronics and that kind of

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stuff and and you know that that's all

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fine and good but really I think it's

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it's just it's the image it's the it's

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the sexiness of what is being sold it's

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a business I mean that's its retail it

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happens everywhere yeah absolutely yeah

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is it very difficult to distinguish

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height from a good product um well it is

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it difficult I I think that it can be

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you know unfortunately in in the audio

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industry much of what is sold is sold by

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ad copy and you really that there's not

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much that you can determine when you

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walk into a pro audio shop you know is

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this microphone good well sure we could

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plug it in you could hear it well that's

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not really going to be a great test of

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something that that will have subtle

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differences between one product and

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another and well fortunately or

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unfortunately I'm not sure they're the

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only way to tell is to really purchase

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the product and then try it in your own

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studio in your own home whatever

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whatever it is on location whatever kind

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of work you do as far as the sort of

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consumer market a stereo system

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and stuff I think what sells a lot of

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people are the specifications of

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something and say well this thing goes

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down to 20 Hertz and and and has a this

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amplifier has a frequency range of up to

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fifty kilohertz or something like that

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which is just beyond anything that we

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can really detect and and some people I

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think just by on specs alone and I

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suppose that's okay really sometimes I

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think that people just spend money

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unnecessarily and they're they're just

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sold in a store by my image again

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there's an excellent podcast i want to

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mention i don't know if you're familiar

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with quick hits yes a guy named dave hit

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has a podcast he had a blog called the

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Hitman chronicles and in his podcast he

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has an episode where he speaks about

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being he used to work in a in an audio

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retail kind of a place place that sells

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stereo systems and stuff like that and

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the workers there were of course very

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familiar with the equipment the the

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speaker enclosures that they would sell

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the amplifiers the stereo systems in

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general the turntables and everything

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and so they would sometimes when it was

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slow they would just kind of do kind of

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their own little blind tests you know of

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equipment and they got to the point

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where they could tell speakers apart and

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stuff like that because with speakers

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that's something that's pretty pretty

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apparent especially if if you get used

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to hearing a particular pair of speakers

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and stuff um but you know they they when

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they sold equipment they would throw in

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speaker wire and um you know this stuff

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was like you know what penny of foot it

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was just it was really nothing I mean

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they didn't they didn't charge the

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customer they would just say you know

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hey how how many feet of speaker cable

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do you need and it was kind of a way to

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close the deal you know it's like if a

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person was standing there wondering this

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is so how many speedy feet of speaker

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cable II need then and that would sort

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of push them over the edge of you know

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they would say you know 12 feet and boom

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that the sale is done and at a certain

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point they started gay

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monster cable and this was in the late

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00:12:47,420 --> 00:12:43,530
70s now the monster cable they sold at

271
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:47,430
like forty dollars a foot or some or for

272
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:48,930
forty dollars a cable or whatever it was

273
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:51,600
but but the point is that this stuff was

274
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:53,970
way more expensive and they actually had

275
00:12:59,510 --> 00:12:57,210
to charge the client and some people you

276
00:13:01,550 --> 00:12:59,520
know came in specifically asking for

277
00:13:03,490 --> 00:13:01,560
monster cable and stuff and and these

278
00:13:05,570 --> 00:13:03,500
employees just didn't feel that they

279
00:13:08,620 --> 00:13:05,580
that there really was a difference

280
00:13:11,420 --> 00:13:08,630
between the two cables so they set up a

281
00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:11,430
blind test that they did themselves and

282
00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:12,690
like all the people in the store the

283
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:14,760
employees participated and they

284
00:13:19,940 --> 00:13:17,370
absolutely could not tell the difference

285
00:13:25,130 --> 00:13:19,950
between one cable and another there was

286
00:13:27,230 --> 00:13:25,140
just simply no difference and yet ah you

287
00:13:30,700 --> 00:13:27,240
know if a person wants to spend that

288
00:13:33,050 --> 00:13:30,710
kind of money on a cable well fine I

289
00:13:36,530 --> 00:13:33,060
guess there's nothing wrong with it

290
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:36,540
however if these were sales people there

291
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:38,850
in there in it to make money to make a

292
00:13:45,530 --> 00:13:42,720
commission and well Dave when he was

293
00:13:47,570 --> 00:13:45,540
recounting this in his podcast said well

294
00:13:49,310 --> 00:13:47,580
you know for him if somebody

295
00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:49,320
specifically asked for it he would he

296
00:13:53,390 --> 00:13:50,910
would sell it to them brother but

297
00:13:55,610 --> 00:13:53,400
otherwise he didn't push it because he

298
00:13:57,860 --> 00:13:55,620
just didn't feel that it was right to do

299
00:14:00,440 --> 00:13:57,870
so you know it was like one does this

300
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:00,450
cheap one penny a foot cable is just as

301
00:14:05,150 --> 00:14:02,450
good it's certainly something that

302
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:05,160
skeptics are interested in we had James

303
00:14:10,610 --> 00:14:08,730
Randi back in 2007 who had to test the

304
00:14:13,910 --> 00:14:10,620
let me see seven thousand two hundred

305
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:13,920
and fifty dollar 12-foot our new audio

306
00:14:19,210 --> 00:14:16,410
cables which are sold by company pair oh

307
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:19,220
you're starting to grown already yeah

308
00:14:23,270 --> 00:14:21,570
have you ever had the opportunity to do

309
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:23,280
a similar taste or would you suggest

310
00:14:27,980 --> 00:14:26,130
people to such a thing you know I've

311
00:14:34,250 --> 00:14:27,990
never heard I've never had the

312
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:34,260
opportunity to use pair cable um I've

313
00:14:39,830 --> 00:14:37,770
certainly heard of places that had cable

314
00:14:42,020 --> 00:14:39,840
even more expensive there are some

315
00:14:46,340 --> 00:14:42,030
studios you know that that just have

316
00:14:50,090 --> 00:14:46,350
solid gold cable and it's just I mean

317
00:14:51,310 --> 00:14:50,100
you know the thing is it's common to go

318
00:14:57,010 --> 00:14:51,320
into a

319
00:14:59,560 --> 00:14:57,020
audio retailer and see things that are

320
00:15:02,800 --> 00:14:59,570
like you know gold-plated contacts you

321
00:15:06,180 --> 00:15:02,810
know and well gold is a great conductor

322
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:06,190
of electricity and stuff and and and

323
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:11,810
yeah okay I'll buy that that the gold

324
00:15:20,130 --> 00:15:16,090
contacts don't corrode they they don't

325
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:20,140
break down like some other cheap metals

326
00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:24,050
but you know as a conductor copper is

327
00:15:32,650 --> 00:15:27,470
also great as long as it's sort of

328
00:15:38,830 --> 00:15:32,660
oxygen free it'll last a lifetime and so

329
00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:38,840
I just simply don't buy this this claim

330
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:40,670
and I I've certainly heard of that

331
00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:43,250
challenge and and it's did it's just no

332
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:46,310
surprise that it just never went through

333
00:15:50,910 --> 00:15:48,770
it never got past the preliminaries you

334
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:50,920
know the and there are ways to of course

335
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:53,810
you know test even even from a

336
00:15:59,680 --> 00:15:57,410
perspective of you know I'll tell you

337
00:16:01,680 --> 00:15:59,690
what it you know in it in a controlled

338
00:16:05,050 --> 00:16:01,690
experiment where you're doing a

339
00:16:08,580 --> 00:16:05,060
spectrographic sort of analysis of how

340
00:16:14,050 --> 00:16:08,590
one cable works as opposed to another

341
00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:14,060
there might be a slight difference in

342
00:16:18,910 --> 00:16:16,310
the response me you could take two of

343
00:16:22,420 --> 00:16:18,920
the same kind of cable and you might get

344
00:16:24,340 --> 00:16:22,430
a slightly different response but really

345
00:16:28,330 --> 00:16:24,350
it's non-detectable it's an

346
00:16:32,410 --> 00:16:28,340
insignificant differences and ultimately

347
00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:32,420
a the person on the street to them you

348
00:16:37,090 --> 00:16:35,630
know it would never make a difference it

349
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:37,100
would just absolutely would never make a

350
00:16:43,570 --> 00:16:39,890
difference people tend not to hear the

351
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:43,580
difference between mp3 and CD audio I

352
00:16:52,930 --> 00:16:49,250
mean low resolution mp3's stuff that's

353
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:52,940
been compressed quite a bit um yeah

354
00:17:01,360 --> 00:16:56,000
people start to hear the artifacts but

355
00:17:03,790 --> 00:17:01,370
when you're getting up to a 320kbps sort

356
00:17:04,930 --> 00:17:03,800
of compression where you're you're

357
00:17:08,530 --> 00:17:04,940
decreasing the fire

358
00:17:12,030 --> 00:17:08,540
size by a factor of say a quarter of the

359
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:12,040
original size or so most people just

360
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:14,690
absolutely cannot tell a difference I

361
00:17:20,020 --> 00:17:17,360
can barely tell the difference sometimes

362
00:17:23,470 --> 00:17:20,030
depending on the program material but

363
00:17:25,450 --> 00:17:23,480
you know it's so so is it ever worth it

364
00:17:28,120 --> 00:17:25,460
for someone to pay seven thousand

365
00:17:30,370 --> 00:17:28,130
dollars for a cable absolutely not in my

366
00:17:32,830 --> 00:17:30,380
opinion but you know what if you have

367
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:32,840
the money and you want the bragging

368
00:17:37,660 --> 00:17:35,090
rights well that's what it costs hmm

369
00:17:39,820 --> 00:17:37,670
yeah you know there was another thing

370
00:17:42,100 --> 00:17:39,830
that came to mind speaking of audio CDs

371
00:17:45,310 --> 00:17:42,110
I mean then this is an example of just

372
00:17:48,430 --> 00:17:45,320
as absolute quackery there were people

373
00:17:52,810 --> 00:17:48,440
that absolutely swore that if you took

374
00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:52,820
an audio CD and put it in a ziplock bag

375
00:17:59,800 --> 00:17:56,650
and put it in the freezer overnight

376
00:18:02,440 --> 00:17:59,810
really that the next day you take it out

377
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:02,450
let it sit you know just to get to room

378
00:18:07,810 --> 00:18:04,880
temperature and they swore it would

379
00:18:10,990 --> 00:18:07,820
absolutely sound better now these are

380
00:18:13,090 --> 00:18:11,000
ones and zeros this is digital and

381
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:13,100
people swore that it made a difference

382
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:14,720
there were another group of people who

383
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:17,050
swore that if you took this particular

384
00:18:21,490 --> 00:18:19,520
green marker and it was a particular

385
00:18:25,450 --> 00:18:21,500
brand on a particular shade of green and

386
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:25,460
if you and if you sort of marked the

387
00:18:31,210 --> 00:18:27,770
edge of the CD that that would influence

388
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:31,220
the sound baloney I mean that its just

389
00:18:39,790 --> 00:18:34,480
oh wow I'm trying to keep it clean Kylie

390
00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:39,800
because I it just it's just outrageous

391
00:18:45,340 --> 00:18:42,710
and how you know how do you prove

392
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:45,350
something like this I mean it's it's so

393
00:18:48,460 --> 00:18:47,090
subjective somebody might sit there and

394
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:48,470
listen and say well that sounds better

395
00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:50,570
and you know what if you had one CD that

396
00:18:53,710 --> 00:18:52,070
you didn't do that with and the CD that

397
00:18:56,410 --> 00:18:53,720
you did it with you have a 50-50 chance

398
00:18:59,680 --> 00:18:56,420
of getting right it's just it's not a

399
00:19:02,290 --> 00:18:59,690
good test and there's no way there's no

400
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:02,300
way that somebody could pick out a CD

401
00:19:08,860 --> 00:19:05,600
that's been frozen you know at this just

402
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:08,870
it's just absolutely no way and and in

403
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:13,130
the audio industry they're they're just

404
00:19:18,340 --> 00:19:16,400
so few people I haven't even come across

405
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:18,350
an instance where

406
00:19:24,279 --> 00:19:22,640
an audio professional really uh you know

407
00:19:27,490 --> 00:19:24,289
where they put their reputation on the

408
00:19:30,370 --> 00:19:27,500
line and said that I can tell this over

409
00:19:33,370 --> 00:19:30,380
this other thing because nobody nobody

410
00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:33,380
can you know it's not like the

411
00:19:37,380 --> 00:19:35,840
difference between it's not like telling

412
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:37,390
the difference between something that's

413
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:40,250
absolute crap and something that's quite

414
00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:43,730
good we're talking often you know you're

415
00:19:47,919 --> 00:19:45,470
you're talking about differences that

416
00:19:50,409 --> 00:19:47,929
are just in perceivable and and thus

417
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:50,419
insignificant and they don't make a

418
00:19:54,850 --> 00:19:52,730
difference you find so little of that

419
00:19:57,549 --> 00:19:54,860
but you'll find tons of people who are

420
00:19:59,980 --> 00:19:57,559
willing to tout the the benefits of this

421
00:20:03,159 --> 00:19:59,990
particular gear over that and and how

422
00:20:06,010 --> 00:20:03,169
wonderful this sounds and how warm this

423
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:06,020
particular microphone sounds as opposed

424
00:20:09,549 --> 00:20:08,090
to something else and you know there are

425
00:20:14,130 --> 00:20:09,559
buzz words like that you know something

426
00:20:17,020 --> 00:20:14,140
that sounds warm and and punchy well

427
00:20:20,830 --> 00:20:17,030
people have yet to define those words

428
00:20:22,899 --> 00:20:20,840
are they good publications or sites or

429
00:20:25,029 --> 00:20:22,909
even professionals within the industry

430
00:20:29,620 --> 00:20:25,039
who are considered trustworthy in terms

431
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:29,630
of consumer affairs you know yeah as as

432
00:20:38,020 --> 00:20:33,770
far as as far as consumer audio there is

433
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:38,030
a consumer reports magazine of course

434
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:41,210
that they really go through enormous

435
00:20:47,620 --> 00:20:45,200
pains to do controlled experiments and

436
00:20:51,159 --> 00:20:47,630
they built an anechoic chamber which is

437
00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:51,169
which is a huge room that has no echo in

438
00:20:56,110 --> 00:20:53,840
it whatsoever it's absolutely lined top

439
00:20:58,779 --> 00:20:56,120
to bottom with fiberglass even the floor

440
00:21:01,120 --> 00:20:58,789
is actually a metal grid beneath which

441
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:01,130
there's fiberglass so when you walk into

442
00:21:07,810 --> 00:21:03,970
this thing it is it is the most unusual

443
00:21:10,390 --> 00:21:07,820
experience because you have no sense of

444
00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:10,400
space you have no sense of whether

445
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:13,840
you're in a tiny room or a gigantic

446
00:21:19,210 --> 00:21:16,130
auditorium a bit because there's nothing

447
00:21:21,130 --> 00:21:19,220
to give you that audible feedback and

448
00:21:22,899 --> 00:21:21,140
actually when you're walking into an

449
00:21:25,149 --> 00:21:22,909
anechoic chamber you almost feel like

450
00:21:28,180 --> 00:21:25,159
you're going into sort of a submarine or

451
00:21:29,860 --> 00:21:28,190
something because suddenly it feels like

452
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:29,870
that the pressure is different although

453
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:31,730
it's absolutely the same it hasn't

454
00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:32,050
changed

455
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:33,760
but it's just an illusion because of

456
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:37,360
your ears anyway so they go through noon

457
00:21:44,910 --> 00:21:40,720
or enormous pains to build you know

458
00:21:48,510 --> 00:21:44,920
places like this and and set up tests to

459
00:21:54,660 --> 00:21:48,520
to give a real-world comparison between

460
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:54,670
say stereo speakers or or amplifiers and

461
00:21:58,560 --> 00:21:56,530
stuff they don't have any advertising

462
00:22:01,620 --> 00:21:58,570
and so that's what makes it you know

463
00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:01,630
it's purely subscription-based so that's

464
00:22:07,770 --> 00:22:04,000
what makes it trustworthy in the audio

465
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:07,780
the pro audio world there used to be a

466
00:22:15,170 --> 00:22:11,050
publication that had no ads and I used

467
00:22:17,910 --> 00:22:15,180
to read their reviews all the time but

468
00:22:21,170 --> 00:22:17,920
unfortunately now they have ads and

469
00:22:23,610 --> 00:22:21,180
suddenly and yeah yeah it's just uh

470
00:22:26,730 --> 00:22:23,620
every review is like well this is a

471
00:22:28,350 --> 00:22:26,740
great product you know that's just it's

472
00:22:30,750 --> 00:22:28,360
a little bit like fashion magazines

473
00:22:32,370 --> 00:22:30,760
where oh yes this lipstick is wonderful

474
00:22:36,060 --> 00:22:32,380
and then suddenly there's a full-page ad

475
00:22:39,050 --> 00:22:36,070
for it on the other page and you got Lee

476
00:22:42,330 --> 00:22:39,060
so so there's you know unfortunately

477
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:42,340
there is no publication that I know of

478
00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:47,200
that is purely objective and and doesn't

479
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:49,840
accept advertising there are plenty of

480
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:52,570
online forms but that's just like the

481
00:22:58,170 --> 00:22:55,570
worst place in the world to research

482
00:23:00,240 --> 00:22:58,180
yeah I mean it's just because everybody

483
00:23:04,260 --> 00:23:00,250
in these forms especially in the pro

484
00:23:07,890 --> 00:23:04,270
audio world you know everybody just

485
00:23:11,340 --> 00:23:07,900
really likes to brag about what they

486
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:11,350
particularly own or they'll only regard

487
00:23:18,270 --> 00:23:15,370
a particular brand yeah you know as

488
00:23:20,010 --> 00:23:18,280
being worth anything and everything else

489
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:20,020
is crap and everything is made in china

490
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:22,930
and i can't stand to listen to this

491
00:23:29,370 --> 00:23:25,120
particular product or whatever it is and

492
00:23:32,550 --> 00:23:29,380
it's just it's just fairly useless it is

493
00:23:35,670 --> 00:23:32,560
difficult if you're getting into that

494
00:23:38,010 --> 00:23:35,680
the signal to noise is obese yeah yes

495
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:38,020
exactly I have one more question which

496
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:40,480
our CDs really good at replacing LPS

497
00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:43,450
after all well you know when when CDs

498
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:45,529
first came out

499
00:23:52,639 --> 00:23:48,960
the technology that was used to create

500
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:52,649
those cds wasn't a mature technology and

501
00:23:58,759 --> 00:23:55,200
everybody complained well some people of

502
00:24:01,039 --> 00:23:58,769
course purists naturally complained that

503
00:24:06,619 --> 00:24:01,049
it just didn't sound anywhere near as

504
00:24:10,609 --> 00:24:06,629
good as LPS or or as good as you know a

505
00:24:15,249 --> 00:24:10,619
30 inch per second half inch tape you

506
00:24:18,169 --> 00:24:15,259
know and and the problem was that the

507
00:24:22,190 --> 00:24:18,179
analog-to-digital converters at that

508
00:24:27,109 --> 00:24:22,200
time weren't very good and since then

509
00:24:30,379 --> 00:24:27,119
well you see the CDs the format of a CD

510
00:24:34,519 --> 00:24:30,389
is a 16-bit word length and a sampling

511
00:24:36,169 --> 00:24:34,529
rate of 44,000 kilohertz now what that

512
00:24:38,749 --> 00:24:36,179
just simply means is that there's a

513
00:24:40,909 --> 00:24:38,759
particular dynamic range to them and

514
00:24:44,269 --> 00:24:40,919
there's a certain frequency response

515
00:24:49,249 --> 00:24:44,279
that it can detect and and it's well

516
00:24:51,799 --> 00:24:49,259
within the range of human hearing but

517
00:24:56,269 --> 00:24:51,809
since the days when CDs first came out

518
00:24:58,339 --> 00:24:56,279
the technology has has has advanced to

519
00:25:01,729 --> 00:24:58,349
the point where today when people are

520
00:25:04,909 --> 00:25:01,739
recording stuff it's done in 24-bit

521
00:25:08,239 --> 00:25:04,919
which has a much wider dynamic range so

522
00:25:12,289 --> 00:25:08,249
the signal is is cleaner it's a longer

523
00:25:15,019 --> 00:25:12,299
word length the things are just even the

524
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:15,029
the sampling rates have gone up even

525
00:25:19,879 --> 00:25:18,330
though it's beyond human hearing the

526
00:25:24,159 --> 00:25:19,889
things have progressed to the point

527
00:25:28,129 --> 00:25:24,169
where uh it really sounds much better

528
00:25:32,829 --> 00:25:28,139
than when CDs were first introduced i

529
00:25:38,180 --> 00:25:32,839
would say in my opinion a well recorded

530
00:25:42,859 --> 00:25:38,190
you know program will sound will sound

531
00:25:47,719 --> 00:25:42,869
absolutely wonderful as compared with an

532
00:25:49,549 --> 00:25:47,729
LP record or half inch tape is it better

533
00:25:54,009 --> 00:25:49,559
I don't you know to me it's sort of

534
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:54,019
different I I have not heard the new

535
00:25:59,030 --> 00:25:57,450
sacd the super audio CD format it's a

536
00:26:03,950 --> 00:25:59,040
it's a completely different

537
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:03,960
format then the then the what they call

538
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:06,090
the PCM pulse code modulation format

539
00:26:11,030 --> 00:26:08,250
which has been used thus far in the

540
00:26:15,070 --> 00:26:11,040
digital world they use direct stream

541
00:26:18,860 --> 00:26:15,080
digital the Sony format for sacd it's

542
00:26:22,190 --> 00:26:18,870
DSD supposedly people claim that it's

543
00:26:26,810 --> 00:26:22,200
the first format to really sound as good

544
00:26:29,030 --> 00:26:26,820
as analog tape and vinyl I personally

545
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:29,040
haven't heard it compared with anything

546
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:30,810
else when when you don't have a

547
00:26:37,970 --> 00:26:33,600
reference point I don't know you know

548
00:26:40,730 --> 00:26:37,980
like I said even even a great Sam you

549
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:40,740
know mp3 sounds pretty good to the

550
00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:44,130
average person but I think the key is to

551
00:26:47,540 --> 00:26:46,110
be able to compare one to the other and

552
00:26:49,910 --> 00:26:47,550
I haven't had a chance to do that yet

553
00:26:55,010 --> 00:26:49,920
but you know all of this is to say that

554
00:26:57,950 --> 00:26:55,020
in my world I I strive to get the best

555
00:27:01,310 --> 00:26:57,960
possible sound and and I go through

556
00:27:03,230 --> 00:27:01,320
great pains to to to try and accomplish

557
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:03,240
that and what happens in the end people

558
00:27:12,380 --> 00:27:09,810
rip it to mp3 know so and and it you

559
00:27:15,770 --> 00:27:12,390
know what but I think it's great that a

560
00:27:18,050 --> 00:27:15,780
person can rip a CD and put it on their

561
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:18,060
ipod I mean I think that's great for the

562
00:27:24,590 --> 00:27:20,850
music industry in general as far as

563
00:27:26,150 --> 00:27:24,600
fidelity well it's unfortunate but you

564
00:27:29,150 --> 00:27:26,160
know what I that doesn't mean that I'm

565
00:27:33,410 --> 00:27:29,160
going to give up and and not do the best

566
00:27:36,380 --> 00:27:33,420
that I can do because this is my craft I

567
00:27:38,210 --> 00:27:36,390
take pride in it so you know as well as

568
00:27:40,430 --> 00:27:38,220
you know thousands of other people

569
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:40,440
around the world they do the same thing

570
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:42,450
and they they strive to make it the best

571
00:27:46,820 --> 00:27:45,120
that they can be and I'll continue to do

572
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:46,830
that and if people wish to hear more

573
00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:48,960
about audio technology in your your

574
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:52,080
efforts to continue to my quest for

575
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:54,480
perfect audio we can hear it on your

576
00:28:01,150 --> 00:27:57,330
podcast can't we the website is sessions

577
00:28:04,790 --> 00:28:01,160
with slough calm and that's SLA you and

578
00:28:06,830 --> 00:28:04,800
yeah it's a I I try to keep it sort of

579
00:28:08,900 --> 00:28:06,840
general sometimes and I know that I

580
00:28:10,970 --> 00:28:08,910
sometimes get quite geeky but you know

581
00:28:12,159 --> 00:28:10,980
if it gets too geeky for anyone that can

582
00:28:14,259 --> 00:28:12,169
always just delete

583
00:28:15,849 --> 00:28:14,269
that's the beauty of podcasting isn't it

584
00:28:18,580 --> 00:28:15,859
yeah and all they can write in and say

585
00:28:20,259 --> 00:28:18,590
what exactly did you mean here or yes

586
00:28:23,109 --> 00:28:20,269
absolutely could always drop me a line

587
00:28:25,149 --> 00:28:23,119
at UH sessions with slough @ gmail.com

588
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:25,159
that's an easy one to remember I suppose

589
00:28:30,820 --> 00:28:27,679
and I'm was happy to answer questions

590
00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:30,830
and yet in any way that I can I I I

591
00:28:36,430 --> 00:28:33,529
enjoyed I take a lot of pleasure in that

592
00:28:39,759 --> 00:28:36,440
in just no just answering questions and

593
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:39,769
giving my my experience my perspective

594
00:28:45,519 --> 00:28:42,289
and I'm not afraid to say I don't know

595
00:28:47,889 --> 00:28:45,529
because sometimes always learning yeah

596
00:28:49,060 --> 00:28:47,899
yeah absolutely absolutely brilliant

597
00:28:51,190 --> 00:28:49,070
thank you so much for this opportunity

598
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:51,200
to talk to you thank you so much Kylie's

599
00:28:57,909 --> 00:28:55,279
been an absolute pleasure the song used

600
00:29:01,779 --> 00:28:57,919
in this segment is I'm the one from the

601
00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:01,789
album the weight of words in addition to

602
00:29:06,190 --> 00:29:04,369
his podcast sessions with slam you'll be

603
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:06,200
appearing on podcasting panels at

604
00:29:12,479 --> 00:29:08,960
dragoncon in atlanta next month you can

605
00:29:18,999 --> 00:29:12,489
check out the podcasting track at ww

606
00:29:20,859 --> 00:29:19,009
dragon hyphen pod calm and now a message

607
00:29:25,290 --> 00:29:20,869
from the inside of Richard Saunders

608
00:29:30,670 --> 00:29:28,030
thank you to everybody who came up to

609
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:30,680
see me at the amazing meeting and thank

610
00:29:34,830 --> 00:29:32,330
you for those who bought my origami

611
00:29:41,230 --> 00:29:34,840
earrings I've set up a little store at

612
00:29:45,780 --> 00:29:41,240
skeptic zone dot ETS y dot com it all

613
00:29:55,180 --> 00:29:48,820
you're listening to the skeptic zone I'm

614
00:29:58,030 --> 00:29:55,190
Brian Dunning from sceptile com join us

615
00:30:04,790 --> 00:29:58,040
now for drinking skeptically in the

616
00:30:09,020 --> 00:30:06,980
hello listeners and welcome to the think

617
00:30:11,570 --> 00:30:09,030
tank once again we're at our favorite

618
00:30:14,030 --> 00:30:11,580
Club and before we start our little

619
00:30:16,970 --> 00:30:14,040
chitchat today about things that we've

620
00:30:18,710 --> 00:30:16,980
heard in the last week we want to say

621
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:18,720
cheers to the health of a listener by

622
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:20,970
the name of Stephen Montgomery from Utah

623
00:30:26,090 --> 00:30:24,000
who sent us some money for drinks she so

624
00:30:29,270 --> 00:30:26,100
cheers to your health care thank you

625
00:30:32,090 --> 00:30:29,280
cheers and I'd like to welcome our

626
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:32,100
special guest today we have Joanne venom

627
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:34,650
ooh hi Joan hi Rachel how are you today

628
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:40,050
I'm a little bit some whoreson I'm

629
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:43,530
soldiering on you've had a few colds and

630
00:30:48,110 --> 00:30:45,360
flus recently haven't you have I have a

631
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:48,120
despite all this time continue with my

632
00:30:53,570 --> 00:30:51,330
medical treatments oh that's I just buy

633
00:30:55,100 --> 00:30:53,580
mine doc by your doctor good Joe good to

634
00:30:56,540 --> 00:30:55,110
see well thanks for coming all the way

635
00:30:58,850 --> 00:30:56,550
from the other side of the bridge to be

636
00:31:00,830 --> 00:30:58,860
with us tonight and I'd also like to say

637
00:31:03,410 --> 00:31:00,840
hello to Diane bestop and hello Diane

638
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:03,420
how are you Rachel good how are you busy

639
00:31:09,530 --> 00:31:06,510
busy busy with work busy with work

640
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:09,540
flying and lots of places lots of stuff

641
00:31:13,910 --> 00:31:12,210
to do at the moment we've all got stuff

642
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:13,920
on at the moment I think heaven wears in

643
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:16,890
a very busy couple of months for most of

644
00:31:21,670 --> 00:31:20,130
us we've obviously had the vaccination

645
00:31:24,140 --> 00:31:21,680
campaign that we've been dealing with

646
00:31:26,090 --> 00:31:24,150
Australian skeptics and Smith it's been

647
00:31:27,530 --> 00:31:26,100
dealing with some media fallout as a

648
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:27,540
result of that will not so much fallout

649
00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:30,840
but interest rather and there will be a

650
00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:32,760
couple of new stories coming up in the

651
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:34,980
next few days in fact on Australian

652
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:37,410
television so as soon as they go to air

653
00:31:41,690 --> 00:31:39,120
we'll stick them up on youtube so our

654
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:41,700
international listeners can see what's

655
00:31:45,380 --> 00:31:43,290
continuing to be investigated by the

656
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:45,390
Australian media which is a good thing

657
00:31:50,510 --> 00:31:48,480
to see responsible scientific journalism

658
00:31:52,370 --> 00:31:50,520
is not something we see that much in

659
00:31:54,050 --> 00:31:52,380
this country or across the world before

660
00:31:56,270 --> 00:31:54,060
that matter any particular channels or

661
00:31:58,820 --> 00:31:56,280
any particular programs yes there will

662
00:32:00,800 --> 00:31:58,830
be a report on the australian

663
00:32:03,290 --> 00:32:00,810
broadcasting corporation in the next few

664
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:03,300
days possibly next week so i can't say

665
00:32:08,690 --> 00:32:05,760
too much but um that will be coming up

666
00:32:11,030 --> 00:32:08,700
so keep an eye out for that and of

667
00:32:13,310 --> 00:32:11,040
course there was some a new story in The

668
00:32:17,260 --> 00:32:13,320
Sydney Morning Herald that appeared on

669
00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:17,270
saturday morning in Sydney which was

670
00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:19,049
talking about

671
00:32:25,759 --> 00:32:22,289
complaint that was issued by Ken MacLeod

672
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:25,769
who is a friend of ours and also a

673
00:32:31,970 --> 00:32:30,330
response from merrill dory and our

674
00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:31,980
president Iran's to give did an

675
00:32:36,229 --> 00:32:34,230
interview for a local radio station in

676
00:32:37,729 --> 00:32:36,239
fact a couple of days ago where Meryl

677
00:32:40,729 --> 00:32:37,739
was interviewed and then Iran was

678
00:32:42,499 --> 00:32:40,739
interviewed and they did a bit of a hack

679
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:42,509
job on that interview Joe did you hear

680
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:44,730
that I did hear it it was I thought it

681
00:32:51,349 --> 00:32:48,570
was actually quite badly um didn't

682
00:32:53,359 --> 00:32:51,359
translate very well yeah well it wasn't

683
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:53,369
very we had the we were lucky to be able

684
00:32:57,859 --> 00:32:56,399
to hear Iran's recording which he made

685
00:33:00,019 --> 00:32:57,869
when he was being interviewed and then

686
00:33:02,180 --> 00:33:00,029
we heard what happened when the editor

687
00:33:04,849 --> 00:33:02,190
or the journalist one edited it all

688
00:33:07,009 --> 00:33:04,859
together and yeah most of the important

689
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:07,019
points that he made were actually didn't

690
00:33:10,639 --> 00:33:08,730
seem to appear on the final edit did

691
00:33:13,220 --> 00:33:10,649
there it was it was very strangely

692
00:33:15,919 --> 00:33:13,230
attitude of Nam didn't really translate

693
00:33:17,539 --> 00:33:15,929
very well into I think just to let our

694
00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:17,549
international and interstate listeners

695
00:33:22,369 --> 00:33:19,529
know two are they the radio station is

696
00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:22,379
to ser and it's an independent sort of

697
00:33:29,389 --> 00:33:24,809
local radio station funded by donations

698
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:29,399
and so uni students and yeah it's

699
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:31,710
volunteers in fact one of our friends

700
00:33:35,269 --> 00:33:33,450
Ian wolf does a very good show called

701
00:33:38,180 --> 00:33:35,279
diffusion radio which is a science based

702
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:38,190
program but you don't always know what

703
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:39,570
you're going to get with those kind of

704
00:33:43,419 --> 00:33:42,090
places so I'm yeah anyway that it would

705
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:43,429
be interesting for people to hear that

706
00:33:48,889 --> 00:33:45,570
all right let's kick off with some news

707
00:33:50,570 --> 00:33:48,899
item shall we now Joe you and I heard

708
00:33:53,090 --> 00:33:50,580
about something today which is to do

709
00:33:55,239 --> 00:33:53,100
with weight loss products in Australia

710
00:33:58,129 --> 00:33:55,249
didn't we yeah no I haven't actually

711
00:33:59,539 --> 00:33:58,139
read any of the newspaper articles that

712
00:34:01,099 --> 00:33:59,549
have been reporting on this but I did

713
00:34:03,049 --> 00:34:01,109
see one of the news reports tonight and

714
00:34:05,659 --> 00:34:03,059
it seems like the the weight loss

715
00:34:07,970 --> 00:34:05,669
industry has decided to finally crack

716
00:34:11,829 --> 00:34:07,980
down on some of these shonky products

717
00:34:15,289 --> 00:34:11,839
that are um promoted within the industry

718
00:34:18,619 --> 00:34:15,299
mmm the large number of chunky products

719
00:34:19,849 --> 00:34:18,629
of rights in the industry so I'm not

720
00:34:22,399 --> 00:34:19,859
quite sure where they're intending on

721
00:34:25,010 --> 00:34:22,409
going with it but it seems to have

722
00:34:26,569 --> 00:34:25,020
finally come to their attention that a

723
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:26,579
lot of the things that have been

724
00:34:30,659 --> 00:34:28,649
promoted is particularly their time at

725
00:34:32,220 --> 00:34:30,669
fad diets and

726
00:34:34,020 --> 00:34:32,230
done things like that which you know I

727
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:34,030
don't think it's particularly news to a

728
00:34:38,069 --> 00:34:35,290
lot of people that these things don't

729
00:34:39,629 --> 00:34:38,079
really work but they seem to have so

730
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:39,639
they decided that they need to crack

731
00:34:44,700 --> 00:34:42,010
down on things well this was actually a

732
00:34:46,319 --> 00:34:44,710
federal government task force which is

733
00:34:49,169 --> 00:34:46,329
called the preventative health task

734
00:34:51,299 --> 00:34:49,179
force and they've called for the weight

735
00:34:53,690 --> 00:34:51,309
loss industry to be regulated in a

736
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:53,700
report that's going to be handed down

737
00:34:58,140 --> 00:34:57,010
what was handed down last month and the

738
00:34:59,700 --> 00:34:58,150
reason that they're doing this is

739
00:35:02,099 --> 00:34:59,710
because they've of course there's an

740
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:02,109
obesity epidemic in this country like

741
00:35:05,970 --> 00:35:03,760
there is in many other parts of the

742
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:05,980
Western world and they see this as a

743
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:08,530
contributing factor in the sense that

744
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:11,290
people go on these fad diets that might

745
00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:12,970
last for a few months and they lose

746
00:35:17,609 --> 00:35:14,710
weight because they're not eating

747
00:35:20,220 --> 00:35:17,619
essentially and then once they go off

748
00:35:21,690 --> 00:35:20,230
the diet more often than not statistics

749
00:35:25,380 --> 00:35:21,700
show that they put on the weight they

750
00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:25,390
lost and sometimes even more yeah and so

751
00:35:29,849 --> 00:35:27,760
this is just contributing to the obesity

752
00:35:32,299 --> 00:35:29,859
crisis and which also which then

753
00:35:34,410 --> 00:35:32,309
reflects on the health care budget etc

754
00:35:37,140 --> 00:35:34,420
so the government's decided they're

755
00:35:38,579 --> 00:35:37,150
getting crackdown on these things but a

756
00:35:43,470 --> 00:35:38,589
lot of these products are sold in

757
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:43,480
pharmacies yes and if not only are they

758
00:35:48,780 --> 00:35:46,450
sold in pharmacies a lot of pharmacies

759
00:35:53,180 --> 00:35:48,790
have gotten onto the bandwagon of you

760
00:35:55,890 --> 00:35:53,190
know making their own products and

761
00:35:59,549 --> 00:35:55,900
promoting them as that particular

762
00:36:01,410 --> 00:35:59,559
pharmacies product and once again it

763
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:01,420
sort of draws one back to the issue of

764
00:36:06,780 --> 00:36:03,760
where pharmacies lie in their

765
00:36:09,780 --> 00:36:06,790
responsibility for using evidence-based

766
00:36:12,299 --> 00:36:09,790
treatments and interventions and

767
00:36:13,650 --> 00:36:12,309
products and so on so well I think I may

768
00:36:16,549 --> 00:36:13,660
have mentioned this on the think tank

769
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:16,559
before but there's a consumer watchdog

770
00:36:23,849 --> 00:36:20,049
body in Australia called choice and they

771
00:36:27,569 --> 00:36:23,859
tend to examine consumer products for

772
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:27,579
efficacy and for they do a whole oh yeah

773
00:36:31,380 --> 00:36:29,290
and quality so they do a whole gamut of

774
00:36:34,559 --> 00:36:31,390
things from washing machines and you

775
00:36:37,380 --> 00:36:34,569
know toasters to things like diets that

776
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:37,390
you can buy in pharmacies and they did a

777
00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:39,970
study late last year showing that most

778
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:41,710
of these things that you buy in a in a

779
00:36:46,740 --> 00:36:44,410
pharmacy don't do any have any long

780
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:46,750
home benefits and I think they cited

781
00:36:51,690 --> 00:36:48,910
they may have and if they didn't they

782
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:51,700
should have the lemon detox diet which

783
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:56,890
of course is useless like my supposed to

784
00:37:01,260 --> 00:36:59,680
work detox diets generally well in fact

785
00:37:06,330 --> 00:37:01,270
there was a blog written about this on

786
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:06,340
the punch yesterday um it's it's a

787
00:37:10,110 --> 00:37:08,290
special kind of powder that has some

788
00:37:11,970 --> 00:37:10,120
sort of peppery stuffing it's sort of

789
00:37:15,210 --> 00:37:11,980
like capsicum powder or paprika powder

790
00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:15,220
and then a lemons sort of stash a and

791
00:37:19,070 --> 00:37:16,720
you just make up this drink so you're

792
00:37:22,410 --> 00:37:19,080
basically drinking peppery lemony water

793
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:22,420
so you lose weight because you're not

794
00:37:27,140 --> 00:37:24,400
eating any calories well that's right

795
00:37:29,250 --> 00:37:27,150
yeah but it's also supposed to be detox

796
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:29,260
and of course listeners would know that

797
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:32,650
I hope so by now that detox diets have

798
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:35,050
no basis in medicine or science it's

799
00:37:39,420 --> 00:37:37,090
just a fad and you know it's all made up

800
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:39,430
so but the lemon detox diet is

801
00:37:42,810 --> 00:37:41,050
particularly well known and in fact

802
00:37:45,780 --> 00:37:42,820
there's a shop just down the road from

803
00:37:47,130 --> 00:37:45,790
my work that I walk past every day it's

804
00:37:48,450 --> 00:37:47,140
a health food shop and their front

805
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:48,460
window at the moment is this beautiful

806
00:37:54,270 --> 00:37:52,570
window display of lemons and nice the

807
00:37:56,010 --> 00:37:54,280
packaging is really attractive in fact

808
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:56,020
it's this nice white box with this lady

809
00:38:00,480 --> 00:37:57,970
sort of jumping in the air like oh I've

810
00:38:02,180 --> 00:38:00,490
detox I'm feeling so much better and

811
00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:02,190
there's a pile of lemons in the window

812
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:05,710
but yet choice showed through their

813
00:38:09,690 --> 00:38:07,810
studies that these things don't have any

814
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:09,700
benefit but one of the things they did

815
00:38:15,150 --> 00:38:13,930
point out in their report was the diets

816
00:38:17,850 --> 00:38:15,160
that you just mentioned that some

817
00:38:20,940 --> 00:38:17,860
pharmacies set up they have these

818
00:38:22,370 --> 00:38:20,950
consultants in there in the pharmacy or

819
00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:22,380
you can go and see and they apparently

820
00:38:27,390 --> 00:38:25,510
designer diets this especially for you

821
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:27,400
tailored to your weight and your blood

822
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:31,570
type and that's an atrocious I don't

823
00:38:35,610 --> 00:38:33,760
know if they are I'm in some cases

824
00:38:38,340 --> 00:38:35,620
they're just pharmacy employees who've

825
00:38:39,570 --> 00:38:38,350
done a three hour training course some

826
00:38:41,460 --> 00:38:39,580
have done a little bit more training

827
00:38:45,630 --> 00:38:41,470
than that some of them are homie up

828
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:45,640
homeopaths not the ones linked to the

829
00:38:50,910 --> 00:38:48,400
pharmacy diet specifically but there are

830
00:38:55,050 --> 00:38:50,920
some that are called nutritionists or

831
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:55,060
homeopaths who I'm just sell some sort

832
00:38:58,680 --> 00:38:56,249
of definitely not died

833
00:39:00,329 --> 00:38:58,690
not as far as I'm aware there may be

834
00:39:03,839 --> 00:39:00,339
some dietitians but generally though

835
00:39:06,749 --> 00:39:03,849
generally no that's not the the common

836
00:39:07,859 --> 00:39:06,759
person to do this sort of stuff so that

837
00:39:09,539 --> 00:39:07,869
was one of the things that choice was

838
00:39:11,279 --> 00:39:09,549
complaining about was that these people

839
00:39:14,940 --> 00:39:11,289
have had three hours of training in some

840
00:39:19,199 --> 00:39:14,950
cases as little as and so they're not

841
00:39:21,390 --> 00:39:19,209
qualified to be giving advice about diet

842
00:39:22,529 --> 00:39:21,400
and nutrition and I guess that actually

843
00:39:23,849 --> 00:39:22,539
it's interesting because it raises a

844
00:39:28,099 --> 00:39:23,859
point that we were talking about earlier

845
00:39:30,660 --> 00:39:28,109
where someone had asked me yesterday

846
00:39:35,519 --> 00:39:30,670
watch you know whether the term

847
00:39:36,989 --> 00:39:35,529
nutritionist is a it can be applied to

848
00:39:39,809 --> 00:39:36,999
anyone with anyone can call themselves a

849
00:39:43,799 --> 00:39:39,819
nutritionist and I had a look at the the

850
00:39:45,449 --> 00:39:43,809
website of the one of the nutritionists

851
00:39:47,549 --> 00:39:45,459
bodies I don't remember the exact name

852
00:39:49,380 --> 00:39:47,559
in Australia and and they they

853
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:49,390
recognized that indeed the term

854
00:39:52,380 --> 00:39:51,130
nutritionist has never been regulated

855
00:39:54,029 --> 00:39:52,390
anyone can call themselves a

856
00:39:55,620 --> 00:39:54,039
nutritionist yeah and so they've

857
00:39:57,539 --> 00:39:55,630
recognized that there is a real problem

858
00:39:59,400 --> 00:39:57,549
with people out there calling themselves

859
00:40:01,109 --> 00:39:59,410
nutritionists who are not qualified to

860
00:40:04,049 --> 00:40:01,119
be giving people advice about nutrition

861
00:40:06,209 --> 00:40:04,059
saying God knows why and that there is a

862
00:40:09,420 --> 00:40:06,219
real need to crack down on on that as

863
00:40:11,549 --> 00:40:09,430
well as a dietitian no I think that node

864
00:40:13,469 --> 00:40:11,559
dietitians difficult I think they are

865
00:40:16,259 --> 00:40:13,479
registered fat yeah they are registered

866
00:40:18,509 --> 00:40:16,269
they have a body okay name is

867
00:40:19,709 --> 00:40:18,519
physiotherapist and dentists hmm and I

868
00:40:21,799 --> 00:40:19,719
think the thing is that in the

869
00:40:26,539 --> 00:40:21,809
application a dietitian is someone who

870
00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:26,549
has a clinical roll a nutritionist has a

871
00:40:30,930 --> 00:40:28,569
different role that they'd be seen more

872
00:40:32,910 --> 00:40:30,940
in industry and so on as a dietitian you

873
00:40:36,420 --> 00:40:32,920
would see more for example in a hospital

874
00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:36,430
making clinical decisions about did the

875
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:38,529
body of or the regulatory body for the

876
00:40:42,509 --> 00:40:40,089
dietitians did they make any comment on

877
00:40:44,999 --> 00:40:42,519
this because they would be oh yes oh no

878
00:40:46,859 --> 00:40:45,009
they back it you mean this decision by

879
00:40:48,180 --> 00:40:46,869
the government to regulate this no

880
00:40:50,309 --> 00:40:48,190
effect in front of me I've got an

881
00:40:52,469 --> 00:40:50,319
article from newscom day you and I quote

882
00:40:56,130 --> 00:40:52,479
the dieticians Association of Australia

883
00:40:57,390 --> 00:40:56,140
is backing the recommendation and that's

884
00:40:59,459 --> 00:40:57,400
I mean it's a good thing for them

885
00:41:02,150 --> 00:40:59,469
because it protects their members and

886
00:41:04,949 --> 00:41:02,160
make sure that you know their their

887
00:41:06,359 --> 00:41:04,959
training is it's going to apply instead

888
00:41:07,529 --> 00:41:06,369
of someone who's hanging up a little

889
00:41:09,420 --> 00:41:07,539
thing on their door saying I'm a

890
00:41:10,070 --> 00:41:09,430
nutritionist I can give you advice you

891
00:41:16,710 --> 00:41:10,080
know

892
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:16,720
so according to one expert here the only

893
00:41:24,510 --> 00:41:18,610
way to lose weight is to stop eating so

894
00:41:30,620 --> 00:41:24,520
much and do more exercise guys sorry

895
00:41:34,980 --> 00:41:30,630
about that yeah it is apparently so

896
00:41:36,180 --> 00:41:34,990
sorry no no quick fix with my diets so

897
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:36,190
if you got something else to talk about

898
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:39,930
their Joe I back on the homeopathy

899
00:41:44,730 --> 00:41:43,330
bandwagon again buddy aunty homeopathy

900
00:41:54,140 --> 00:41:44,740
Pendragon actually starting your

901
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:54,150
Hanuman's not with us tonight oh yeah

902
00:42:07,940 --> 00:41:56,970
Gina you're drinking waters iron soda

903
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:11,940
you've just shaken so the UM the the

904
00:42:18,300 --> 00:42:13,810
reason I've been interested in home your

905
00:42:20,180 --> 00:42:18,310
feet this week is where yet is I've been

906
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:20,190
coming across a lot of things about

907
00:42:27,780 --> 00:42:23,890
homeopathy in India and the reason that

908
00:42:30,300 --> 00:42:27,790
interested me is because I know that in

909
00:42:32,310 --> 00:42:30,310
India and I don't know about what other

910
00:42:33,990 --> 00:42:32,320
countries but I know they didn't know a

911
00:42:36,810 --> 00:42:34,000
lot of countries in Europe homeopathy is

912
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:36,820
very much accepted as part of mainstream

913
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:41,050
medicine and when you read news reports

914
00:42:47,190 --> 00:42:43,330
from India about medicine you hear

915
00:42:49,980 --> 00:42:47,200
homeopaths referred to as part of the

916
00:42:52,170 --> 00:42:49,990
mainstream medical body and it's quite a

917
00:42:54,210 --> 00:42:52,180
strange experience to read these

918
00:42:56,490 --> 00:42:54,220
articles and the reason it's been

919
00:42:58,920 --> 00:42:56,500
particularly in the the manor a lot in

920
00:43:02,460 --> 00:42:58,930
the last few weeks is because of swine

921
00:43:07,050 --> 00:43:02,470
flu hmm and the UM the Indian government

922
00:43:09,260 --> 00:43:07,060
is um you know well specifically the

923
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:09,270
particular I shall I looked at was some

924
00:43:15,540 --> 00:43:13,510
about in an area of India I can't

925
00:43:17,490 --> 00:43:15,550
remember exactly where it was but the

926
00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:17,500
government was funding research into a

927
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:21,110
homeopathic treatment for the h1n1

928
00:43:27,730 --> 00:43:24,170
a virus and i just found this such a

929
00:43:31,150 --> 00:43:27,740
bizarre thing to read that this is not

930
00:43:33,340 --> 00:43:31,160
just that some random homeopathic

931
00:43:36,250 --> 00:43:33,350
organization is doing this isn't this is

932
00:43:39,820 --> 00:43:36,260
a government-funded local government or

933
00:43:41,890 --> 00:43:39,830
is it federal ah it's a sort of i think

934
00:43:43,690 --> 00:43:41,900
it was sort of almost equivalent of

935
00:43:46,210 --> 00:43:43,700
state I don't I can't remember exactly

936
00:43:48,250 --> 00:43:46,220
where which area of India that was a

937
00:43:51,370 --> 00:43:48,260
province of some yeah bring your

938
00:43:52,810 --> 00:43:51,380
government yeah that's right and in fact

939
00:43:54,820 --> 00:43:52,820
actually I can tell you exactly because

940
00:43:57,220 --> 00:43:54,830
i thought the article yeah listen this

941
00:44:02,380 --> 00:43:57,230
is quite i'm relevant to in for the case

942
00:44:05,740 --> 00:44:02,390
here of the baby girl Sam yeah its own

943
00:44:09,250 --> 00:44:05,750
family case yeah because some Alice's

944
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:09,260
who don't remember Gloria Sam was nine

945
00:44:15,010 --> 00:44:12,170
months old when she died of malnutrition

946
00:44:17,890 --> 00:44:15,020
and infections because she had severe

947
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:17,900
eczema and her parents had treated her

948
00:44:22,270 --> 00:44:20,450
with homeopathy despite the fact that

949
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:22,280
her father was a registered homeopath

950
00:44:28,110 --> 00:44:24,650
but also a registered medical doctor

951
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:28,120
yeah then that trial has been going on

952
00:44:34,180 --> 00:44:31,520
they were charged with manslaughter and

953
00:44:35,770 --> 00:44:34,190
recently there was another finding in

954
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:35,780
that care but actually they think they

955
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:38,570
were talking about the sentencing in the

956
00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:41,690
last couple of weeks and I think that

957
00:44:52,210 --> 00:44:45,680
his his barrister had done had said

958
00:44:55,660 --> 00:44:52,220
recently that that the father's name but

959
00:44:57,700 --> 00:44:55,670
the Thomas Thomas firm that he had

960
00:44:58,800 --> 00:44:57,710
demonstrated that he had learned from

961
00:45:02,170 --> 00:44:58,810
what had happened to his daughter

962
00:45:04,510 --> 00:45:02,180
because his other child who is I think

963
00:45:07,420 --> 00:45:04,520
now three years old according to the

964
00:45:11,050 --> 00:45:07,430
barrister developed similar illnesses

965
00:45:12,610 --> 00:45:11,060
and that initially I think initially I

966
00:45:14,830 --> 00:45:12,620
think it had been treated to homeopathic

967
00:45:17,170 --> 00:45:14,840
Lee but that now it was being treated

968
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:17,180
with conventional medicine along with

969
00:45:25,210 --> 00:45:20,720
homeopathy and other treatments and I i

970
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:25,220
just had to sort of walk away from I

971
00:45:29,140 --> 00:45:27,530
remember reading that too and and the

972
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:29,150
barrister was clutching at straws that

973
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:30,890
was so small that you can hardly even

974
00:45:35,020 --> 00:45:33,200
imagine they existed i remember one of

975
00:45:37,810 --> 00:45:35,030
his statements was to do with the fact

976
00:45:39,970 --> 00:45:37,820
he said Thomas Sam made a mistake

977
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:39,980
because of his faith and respect for

978
00:45:45,610 --> 00:45:42,530
homeopathy but he was a qualified doctor

979
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:45,620
a qualified medical doctor so they are

980
00:45:51,700 --> 00:45:47,690
scampering in the dirt to find something

981
00:45:55,900 --> 00:45:51,710
here absolutely yeah anyway I digress oh

982
00:45:57,910 --> 00:45:55,910
no no never all but yeah it's just it's

983
00:46:00,790 --> 00:45:57,920
quite fascinating we're sort of how this

984
00:46:04,180 --> 00:46:00,800
is being being played out in India the

985
00:46:07,420 --> 00:46:04,190
so the young the particular it was the

986
00:46:09,820 --> 00:46:07,430
Maharashtra government in an area called

987
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:09,830
Pinal poon I'm not sure how to pronounce

988
00:46:16,930 --> 00:46:14,330
back time so they were looking at they

989
00:46:18,730 --> 00:46:16,940
wanting to be the first to find an

990
00:46:22,780 --> 00:46:18,740
effective alternative medical treatment

991
00:46:25,420 --> 00:46:22,790
for the h1n1 virus hmm and they and

992
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:25,430
what's really interesting is I've seen

993
00:46:30,250 --> 00:46:28,130
these particular substances mentioned in

994
00:46:32,410 --> 00:46:30,260
a couple of articles but there are few

995
00:46:34,660 --> 00:46:32,420
articles where they talk about finding a

996
00:46:36,790 --> 00:46:34,670
treatment for h1n one who are using

997
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:36,800
homeopathic treatments and they all

998
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:40,250
refer to different substances as having

999
00:46:44,260 --> 00:46:42,410
you know being ones that will you know

1000
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:44,270
will save the day will be the correct

1001
00:46:48,310 --> 00:46:46,130
substance so they talked about two of

1002
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:48,320
them one was called barren phosphate and

1003
00:46:55,180 --> 00:46:52,490
which which they say increases

1004
00:46:57,850 --> 00:46:55,190
hemoglobin and therefore increases the

1005
00:47:00,130 --> 00:46:57,860
resistance to disease and the other one

1006
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:00,140
is called Callie muir which strengthens

1007
00:47:04,780 --> 00:47:02,450
cells and enhances their ability to

1008
00:47:06,340 --> 00:47:04,790
fight viruses and I wouldn't know how to

1009
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:06,350
look at you know what each of these

1010
00:47:12,340 --> 00:47:10,250
substances were and there and this was

1011
00:47:17,590 --> 00:47:12,350
all recommended by a senior homeopath

1012
00:47:20,020 --> 00:47:17,600
called dr. oak inverse phosphate or as

1013
00:47:22,180 --> 00:47:20,030
they call fareham theorem phosphate or

1014
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:22,190
had a very sort of homeopathic sounding

1015
00:47:25,870 --> 00:47:24,410
name is an inorganic compound which is

1016
00:47:27,730 --> 00:47:25,880
used in garden chemicals but it's also

1017
00:47:30,190 --> 00:47:27,740
added to food supplement as a way of

1018
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:30,200
adding iron to the diet so I mean you

1019
00:47:33,220 --> 00:47:31,250
know they're of course they're

1020
00:47:37,570 --> 00:47:33,230
legitimate so you know mmm substance is

1021
00:47:39,250 --> 00:47:37,580
used in health care and so on the other

1022
00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:39,260
one and this is what I found rather

1023
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:40,720
interesting this cali mirror is

1024
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:43,250
potassium chloride

1025
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:46,890
with what yeah it's also called Callie

1026
00:47:54,829 --> 00:47:50,160
Muir is an interesting homeopathic name

1027
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:54,839
for potassium chloride and the thing

1028
00:47:57,950 --> 00:47:56,160
about potassium chloride is that it's

1029
00:48:00,440 --> 00:47:57,960
essentially our in our bodies and it's

1030
00:48:03,980 --> 00:48:00,450
used in medical treatments for treating

1031
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:03,990
low potassium and to replenish

1032
00:48:08,210 --> 00:48:05,730
electrolytes and you have diarrhea and

1033
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:08,220
so on but in very high doses it can

1034
00:48:11,690 --> 00:48:09,810
actually cause cardiac arrest yeah

1035
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:11,700
because of the potassium exactly yeah

1036
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:15,570
and in homeopathic dilutions you see it

1037
00:48:22,370 --> 00:48:19,410
in you know the see six or 630 dilutions

1038
00:48:24,020 --> 00:48:22,380
crazy crazy homeopathic delusions but

1039
00:48:28,819 --> 00:48:24,030
what I've had a really really strange

1040
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:28,829
was that one of the herbal cold and flu

1041
00:48:37,130 --> 00:48:34,410
tablets contains 35 milligrams of

1042
00:48:39,950 --> 00:48:37,140
potassium chloride and 20 milligrams of

1043
00:48:41,599 --> 00:48:39,960
ferrous phosphate but what I was trying

1044
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:41,609
to work out lies and and and so

1045
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:47,130
homeopathic remedies are sold in the you

1046
00:48:51,620 --> 00:48:49,050
find homeopathic remedies sold alongside

1047
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:51,630
herbal remedies yeah they all they all

1048
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:55,170
sort of feed off each other so if this

1049
00:48:58,910 --> 00:48:56,640
particular cold and flu tablet is

1050
00:49:01,040 --> 00:48:58,920
claiming that this high dose of

1051
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:01,050
potassium chloride and this high dose of

1052
00:49:06,500 --> 00:49:04,410
ferrous phosphate is going to be is

1053
00:49:08,270 --> 00:49:06,510
going to be able to be used for cold and

1054
00:49:09,710 --> 00:49:08,280
flu tablets and yet the homeopath are

1055
00:49:12,050 --> 00:49:09,720
saying that they're exceptional

1056
00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:12,060
dilutions of these substances I got

1057
00:49:17,780 --> 00:49:14,089
which they say have the opposite effect

1058
00:49:20,599 --> 00:49:17,790
mmm how does that in any way make any

1059
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:20,609
sense shouldn't if the ones using it to

1060
00:49:23,420 --> 00:49:21,839
fight cold the flu but the other ones

1061
00:49:24,650 --> 00:49:23,430
using join your path acknowledge like

1062
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:24,660
this stage you should know that

1063
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:27,810
homeopathy doesn't make any sense Co

1064
00:49:33,770 --> 00:49:32,010
you're missing the point of it to a

1065
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:33,780
ticket a bit of an extreme but it was

1066
00:49:38,270 --> 00:49:35,520
just that I just looked at this and I

1067
00:49:40,130 --> 00:49:38,280
thought this this is just you know you

1068
00:49:41,780 --> 00:49:40,140
can't you know they talk about some of

1069
00:49:45,140 --> 00:49:41,790
these substances which have this

1070
00:49:47,630 --> 00:49:45,150
opposite effect hmm but they're talking

1071
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:47,640
about the same substance not having it

1072
00:49:52,010 --> 00:49:49,890
just it's not really but avoid it

1073
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:52,020
because it's made up that's why it

1074
00:49:55,370 --> 00:49:55,050
made up as Steve novella said and I

1075
00:49:56,930 --> 00:49:55,380
think

1076
00:49:58,609 --> 00:49:56,940
latest episode of skeptics guide to the

1077
00:50:02,769 --> 00:49:58,619
universe and he's now created my

1078
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:02,779
favorite logical fallacy ever it's the

1079
00:50:09,289 --> 00:50:07,170
I've just gone blank it's the making up

1080
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:09,299
and pulling it out of your ass

1081
00:50:17,630 --> 00:50:15,450
and I just oh I just think you know this

1082
00:50:19,339 --> 00:50:17,640
color stuff is not if you try to draw a

1083
00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:19,349
logical conclusions from the stuff you

1084
00:50:23,150 --> 00:50:21,660
read about monopoly you just end up in a

1085
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:23,160
screaming heap you know isn't there's no

1086
00:50:28,539 --> 00:50:26,490
logical conclusion to be drawn but it

1087
00:50:33,740 --> 00:50:28,549
you know when you when you see how

1088
00:50:36,829 --> 00:50:33,750
illogical it is and trying to get people

1089
00:50:39,710 --> 00:50:36,839
who are who are bowling into it to

1090
00:50:42,740 --> 00:50:39,720
realize that there is no scientific

1091
00:50:44,450 --> 00:50:42,750
basis to it you know it's that it's a

1092
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:44,460
kind of thing that that we hope that

1093
00:50:51,740 --> 00:50:46,890
people will actually sing about

1094
00:50:52,999 --> 00:50:51,750
yesterday yeah yeah so um okay I got off

1095
00:50:54,559 --> 00:50:53,009
on a bit of a tangent on that well

1096
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:54,569
kranes on more crazy stuff from the

1097
00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:56,160
homeopath actually just just there was

1098
00:50:59,539 --> 00:50:58,410
one other little thing in Hanukkah which

1099
00:51:01,640 --> 00:50:59,549
I thought you will find a little bit

1100
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:01,650
amusing which was that there was a bit

1101
00:51:08,990 --> 00:51:04,410
of an SMS crisis related to homeopathy

1102
00:51:12,589 --> 00:51:09,000
and the and swine flows which SMS christ

1103
00:51:15,769 --> 00:51:12,599
SMS crisis homeopathic medicine SMS

1104
00:51:18,470 --> 00:51:15,779
spread misinformation there was an SMS

1105
00:51:21,650 --> 00:51:18,480
apparently got sent around randomly the

1106
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:21,660
SU game was in india are telling people

1107
00:51:26,930 --> 00:51:24,450
to take a particular homeopathic remedy

1108
00:51:32,269 --> 00:51:26,940
three times a day for five days as

1109
00:51:33,950 --> 00:51:32,279
prevention for swine flu and apparently

1110
00:51:35,569 --> 00:51:33,960
this created some sort of public panic

1111
00:51:39,980 --> 00:51:35,579
because people were getting this random

1112
00:51:43,009 --> 00:51:39,990
service my gosh it was very strange

1113
00:51:44,990 --> 00:51:43,019
little um a little something that

1114
00:51:47,630 --> 00:51:45,000
happened can they explain what happened

1115
00:51:49,009 --> 00:51:47,640
it was it was just a viral SMS was it

1116
00:51:50,809 --> 00:51:49,019
yeah it's like a chain letter or

1117
00:51:52,849 --> 00:51:50,819
something it was like a viral SMS that

1118
00:51:55,309 --> 00:51:52,859
went around telling able to take a

1119
00:52:01,520 --> 00:51:55,319
jingle homeopath nixle preparation to

1120
00:52:03,630 --> 00:52:01,530
prevent h1n1 right insane

1121
00:52:06,020 --> 00:52:03,640
well we might just finish off by talking

1122
00:52:10,050 --> 00:52:06,030
about something completely different

1123
00:52:13,230 --> 00:52:10,060
ghosties and ufos have you guys heard

1124
00:52:15,660 --> 00:52:13,240
about the sightings in the last week of

1125
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:15,670
ufos in darwin which is in the north of

1126
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:18,400
Australia I have an actual in either a

1127
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:21,370
high service and enlighten us well there

1128
00:52:26,850 --> 00:52:24,250
have been reports of UFOs in the

1129
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:26,860
Northern Territory quite a lot in the

1130
00:52:33,990 --> 00:52:31,770
last 12 months and just this week a

1131
00:52:38,070 --> 00:52:34,000
gentleman from the Northern Territory by

1132
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:38,080
the name of our alan ferguson produced a

1133
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:40,000
video or released a video that he said

1134
00:52:44,970 --> 00:52:42,970
was of UFO activity and he's now

1135
00:52:47,580 --> 00:52:44,980
claiming that tourists will be flocking

1136
00:52:49,620 --> 00:52:47,590
to darwin from around the world because

1137
00:52:52,110 --> 00:52:49,630
he believes that alien activity in the

1138
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:52,120
skies could rival the wonders of the

1139
00:52:58,410 --> 00:52:55,050
natural world in the Northern Territory

1140
00:53:01,680 --> 00:52:58,420
for example like coolaroo which is ayers

1141
00:53:04,380 --> 00:53:01,690
rock kakadu gorge or kakadu national

1142
00:53:05,820 --> 00:53:04,390
park and the katherine gorge which are

1143
00:53:08,910 --> 00:53:05,830
considered one of the most spectacular

1144
00:53:10,290 --> 00:53:08,920
parts of australia yeah he thinks people

1145
00:53:14,370 --> 00:53:10,300
won't worry about that anymore they'll

1146
00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:14,380
go up to Sandia to the UFOs yeah so um

1147
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:16,510
he says that after seeing all these

1148
00:53:21,030 --> 00:53:18,850
sightings for years I've said to myself

1149
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:21,040
we're crazy for not promoting it to the

1150
00:53:31,110 --> 00:53:27,130
rest of the world has refocused Wow yeah

1151
00:53:32,970 --> 00:53:31,120
so um they have they also the Seven

1152
00:53:35,550 --> 00:53:32,980
Network channel seven spoke to a UF

1153
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:35,560
ologist who said there was a history of

1154
00:53:39,690 --> 00:53:37,450
unexplained sightings in the northern

1155
00:53:41,430 --> 00:53:39,700
territory and he thinks that in the last

1156
00:53:43,170 --> 00:53:41,440
18 months has been unusually high

1157
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:43,180
activity I'm wondering whether this

1158
00:53:50,310 --> 00:53:44,650
might be because they're a whole lot of

1159
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:50,320
dehydrated lunatics with three well I

1160
00:53:55,550 --> 00:53:52,450
don't know from any mean to offend any

1161
00:53:57,930 --> 00:53:55,560
listeners that live there ready no no

1162
00:54:02,610 --> 00:53:57,940
i'm thinking more you know British

1163
00:54:05,010 --> 00:54:02,620
British hmm i think it's lola and

1164
00:54:07,290 --> 00:54:05,020
germans in fact yes hello to our German

1165
00:54:08,790 --> 00:54:07,300
friends if you come to the Northern

1166
00:54:11,220 --> 00:54:08,800
Territory don't walk around thinking

1167
00:54:12,510 --> 00:54:11,230
you'll find a town because you won't and

1168
00:54:13,580 --> 00:54:12,520
you'll end up either eaten by a

1169
00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:13,590
crocodile or so

1170
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:17,730
UFOs yeah running out of water and

1171
00:54:26,930 --> 00:54:24,450
seeing UFOs yeah so am this a northern

1172
00:54:29,720 --> 00:54:26,940
territory MP in fact member of

1173
00:54:31,490 --> 00:54:29,730
parliament by the name of Jerry would he

1174
00:54:33,770 --> 00:54:31,500
told a local paper he had seen UFOs

1175
00:54:36,530 --> 00:54:33,780
flying around in Darwin's rural area and

1176
00:54:38,060 --> 00:54:36,540
he said that there there wasn't even a

1177
00:54:39,380 --> 00:54:38,070
sound or a whisper there was nothing you

1178
00:54:41,930 --> 00:54:39,390
could just see these things moving

1179
00:54:44,230 --> 00:54:41,940
quickly across the sky and he said it

1180
00:54:46,220 --> 00:54:44,240
was like a trail of part of sparks

1181
00:54:49,700 --> 00:54:46,230
similar to when you see a shooting star

1182
00:54:52,370 --> 00:54:49,710
d perhaps it was a shooting star well no

1183
00:54:54,830 --> 00:54:52,380
listen to this joke I quote I am also a

1184
00:55:00,560 --> 00:54:54,840
skeptic but I saw this thing clear as

1185
00:55:03,830 --> 00:55:00,570
day see see ya he's a skeptic but it was

1186
00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:03,840
still there yeah yeah so skeptics we

1187
00:55:08,180 --> 00:55:05,910
never get things wrong we never we are

1188
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:08,190
no no no no and you know people that

1189
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:09,570
call themselves skeptic are always

1190
00:55:15,350 --> 00:55:13,410
really escape absolutely so maybe

1191
00:55:17,780 --> 00:55:15,360
Darwinism going to be the next UFO

1192
00:55:20,510 --> 00:55:17,790
hotspot so anyone who's coming to the

1193
00:55:23,780 --> 00:55:20,520
conference in 2010 might like the time

1194
00:55:26,660 --> 00:55:23,790
head Fidel went after Sydney and go and

1195
00:55:28,250 --> 00:55:26,670
sit in the in the outback with no water

1196
00:55:30,170 --> 00:55:28,260
and wait till you start to see things in

1197
00:55:32,210 --> 00:55:30,180
the sky and then you do it actually

1198
00:55:36,500 --> 00:55:32,220
don't know if anyone I think a few of us

1199
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:36,510
caught Louie throws um look at UFOs on

1200
00:55:42,530 --> 00:55:39,770
the other night oh that was a knife

1201
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:42,540
anywhere ever if ever we needed another

1202
00:55:48,470 --> 00:55:46,410
one mmm we also have seen there's been

1203
00:55:51,370 --> 00:55:48,480
reports this week of ghosts in our

1204
00:55:54,950 --> 00:55:51,380
parliament house in New South Wales

1205
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:54,960
apparently there's been the sounds of a

1206
00:55:59,320 --> 00:55:57,330
crying baby then when people go to look

1207
00:56:03,500 --> 00:55:59,330
for the baby they can't find it

1208
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:03,510
kookaburra Oh miss Australia I had no

1209
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:05,280
idea what kookaburras what I thought

1210
00:56:10,340 --> 00:56:08,610
they were crying babies did you really I

1211
00:56:12,410 --> 00:56:10,350
came all this crush my husband so they

1212
00:56:15,230 --> 00:56:12,420
were monkeys yes we had monkeys in

1213
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:15,240
Australia we monkey kookaburras perhaps

1214
00:56:19,569 --> 00:56:17,490
we shouldn't see if we can play a

1215
00:56:31,930 --> 00:56:19,579
kookaburra sound so that out

1216
00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:31,940
oh baby can't find the baby though yes

1217
00:56:36,670 --> 00:56:34,640
on top of this there's been there have

1218
00:56:38,499 --> 00:56:36,680
been reports of people feeling someone

1219
00:56:40,749 --> 00:56:38,509
tapping their shoulder on the back of

1220
00:56:42,789 --> 00:56:40,759
their neck and then turning around and

1221
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:42,799
there's nothing there and of course the

1222
00:56:54,690 --> 00:56:49,729
traditional somebody just taps me on the

1223
00:56:58,539 --> 00:56:54,700
shoulder jose meter Oh wasn't me honest

1224
00:57:01,569 --> 00:56:58,549
and apparently there's also the typical

1225
00:57:03,039 --> 00:57:01,579
vision of a you know an old man who just

1226
00:57:05,829 --> 00:57:03,049
sort of walked past the corridor or

1227
00:57:08,739 --> 00:57:05,839
something but it is true that parliament

1228
00:57:11,279 --> 00:57:08,749
house is located in an area where

1229
00:57:14,499 --> 00:57:11,289
there's a hospital around the area and

1230
00:57:17,140 --> 00:57:14,509
they used to be a morgue underneath or

1231
00:57:19,479 --> 00:57:17,150
something so that would make sense

1232
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:19,489
that's probably why Jared ghosties there

1233
00:57:24,579 --> 00:57:22,130
yeah and there was actually some pretty

1234
00:57:26,769 --> 00:57:24,589
funny reporting on this by the media

1235
00:57:28,420 --> 00:57:26,779
saying that the ghosts are not just of

1236
00:57:30,099 --> 00:57:28,430
the old parliamentarians who are still

1237
00:57:32,529 --> 00:57:30,109
hanging around you just don't want to

1238
00:57:36,759 --> 00:57:32,539
leave there are apparently spirits there

1239
00:57:40,349 --> 00:57:36,769
as well oh I actually heard a um mr.

1240
00:57:42,910 --> 00:57:40,359
what what did he call himself 00

1241
00:57:44,439 --> 00:57:42,920
Australia's go to own ghost whisperer oh

1242
00:57:47,049 --> 00:57:44,449
I heard interviewed on the radio

1243
00:57:54,430 --> 00:57:47,059
yesterday and um die annually in please

1244
00:57:56,410 --> 00:57:54,440
because you talk about orbs like I'm so

1245
00:58:00,069 --> 00:57:56,420
much style on Twitter when I take

1246
00:58:02,319 --> 00:58:00,079
pictures I'd love orbs in my picture are

1247
00:58:06,819 --> 00:58:02,329
you get off TI and always tweet is

1248
00:58:22,539 --> 00:58:06,829
beautiful if our listeners would like to

1249
00:58:27,339 --> 00:58:22,549
check out diane's please go she died an

1250
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:27,349
underscore look good hey AUB's she's

1251
00:58:36,330 --> 00:58:29,290
gone bright red alert

1252
00:58:38,430 --> 00:58:36,340
that's my beautiful orbs as joe said all

1253
00:58:43,790 --> 00:58:38,440
right well we we can play wrap it up on

1254
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:46,800
thank you Joe better moon thank you for

1255
00:58:53,130 --> 00:58:50,370
talking to us about Diane's or anytime

1256
00:58:57,090 --> 00:58:53,140
ty Ann thank you for joining us on the

1257
00:58:58,680 --> 00:58:57,100
think tank I wonder if a guest for tea

1258
00:59:01,770 --> 00:58:58,690
party five minutes servicing the

1259
00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:01,780
ashfield coinin little recorded Park can

1260
00:59:07,110 --> 00:59:04,510
see Canterbury areas cozy bus will

1261
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:07,120
depart in five minutes thank you yeah

1262
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:11,650
well and next time you hear our sisters

1263
00:59:17,700 --> 00:59:14,410
will be back to a normal show with our

1264
00:59:21,570 --> 00:59:17,710
regular members including Richard

1265
00:59:23,700 --> 00:59:21,580
Saunders so when Ellie forgot and

1266
00:59:25,620 --> 00:59:23,710
hopefully we'll have them Dave the happy

1267
00:59:28,020 --> 00:59:25,630
singer and maybe around to give and Joe

1268
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:28,030
you'll be back one day and Diane will be

1269
00:59:56,340 --> 00:59:54,210
well thanks for joining me for the

1270
00:59:58,950 --> 00:59:56,350
skeptic zone next week we'll have our

1271
01:00:00,599 --> 00:59:58,960
full show back with dr. Reggie reports a

1272
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:00,609
grain of salt with Iran's to give and

1273
01:00:06,060 --> 01:00:03,250
our regular think tank and don't forget

1274
01:00:08,010 --> 01:00:06,070
come and see us at Dragon Con in Atlanta

1275
01:00:10,530 --> 01:00:08,020
come and find this will be there at the

1276
01:00:15,630 --> 01:00:10,540
skeptic track until then it's goodbye

1277
01:00:17,940 --> 01:00:15,640
from Richard Saunders you've been

1278
01:00:22,470 --> 01:00:17,950
listening to the skeptic zone visit our

1279
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:22,480
website at www skeptics on TV the

1280
01:00:27,250 --> 01:00:24,970
comments contacts and extra video